| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Sirch
Advanced Member
USA
2668 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Jan 2008 : 23:36:59
|
No problem. Each re-read the books get better. I always manage to get chills while reading them.
-----
Yesterday upon the stair
I met a man who wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
I wish that man would go away |
 |
|
|
Vassor Doss
Advanced Member
USA
2224 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2008 : 01:57:42
|
Yea, Sirch! That makes two converts, myself included. You need to recruit more!!!
Welcome Dave.
"Colt 45. It works everytime." |
|
|
|
Dave
New Member
USA
58 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2008 : 02:32:50
|
I'm almost finished re-reading A Clash of Kings. One cool thing was actually picking up on the visions Dany had when she visited the Undyeing ones in Qarth. They just don't make as much sense until you read the actual occurance in a later book. If I'm lucky Dance will come out shortly after I finish re-reading A Feast for Crows.
Thanks, Vassor. |
|
|
|
Vassor Doss
Advanced Member
USA
2224 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2008 : 04:14:41
|
Let's cross our fingers that Martin will actually follow through with his expectation of finishing Dragons by the summer.
I've read all four books 3 times now (I just started Thrones for round 4) and I'm still finding new stuff out that I missed the other times through.
There's so many hidden innuendos in every chapter that it's easy to miss the subtleties.
There needs to be a guide/compendium to Westeros.
"Colt 45. It works everytime." |
Edited by - Vassor Doss on 10 Jan 2008 04:16:06 |
|
|
|
Shaf
Starting Member
8 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 20:05:31
|
quote:
Originally posted by Vassor Doss
There needs to be a guide/compendium to Westeros.
There are a few:
http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/ -- The Citadel, a nice informational resource with FAQs, correspondence, a wonderful Concordance section, maps, heraldry, and other goodies.
http://www.towerofthehand.com -- Tower of the Hand, an encyclopedia with full summaries of every chapter in the books, reader guides, and a compendium of articles, frequently asked question, and as close to a comprehensive character list as you'll find.
http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Main_Page -- A Wiki of Ice and Fire
http://asoiaf.westeros.org -- The official aSoIaF message boards, where you can converse with people who have read the books so closely as to make you feel like you've only skimmed them. |
Edited by - Shaf on 22 Jan 2008 20:05:56 |
|
|
|
Carlin
Junior Member
Australia
112 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2008 : 13:20:02
|
the lineage of houses and bastards aside...has anyone put any thought into who killed joff? He was eating tyrion's pidgeon pie at the wedding...not his own. So, was he meant to die, or was tyrion?
 |
|
|
|
Vassor Doss
Advanced Member
USA
2224 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2008 : 17:23:36
|
I'm pretty sure it was the Tyrell's that poisoned Joff with the help of Sansa (inadvertantly). Lady Olenna removes the poison from Sansa's hair net when she's pretending to adjust it.
Shaf any other conspiracies?
"Colt 45. It works everytime." |
Edited by - Vassor Doss on 24 Jan 2008 17:24:21 |
|
|
|
Carlin
Junior Member
Australia
112 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2008 : 04:16:42
|
quote:
Originally posted by Vassor Doss
I'm pretty sure it was the Tyrell's that poisoned Joff with the help of Sansa (inadvertantly). Lady Olenna removes the poison from Sansa's hair net when she's pretending to adjust it.
Shaf any other conspiracies?
"Colt 45. It works everytime."
okay, sure I get that, but what I'm saying is was Joff actually the intended victim? If you read the pages carefully, it says that Joff comes to Tyrion's table, rants and raves...and then begins eating Tyrion's pidgeon pie...and shortly thereafter, during his drunken ravings and cruel actions begins to choke and...koff koff. I wonder...if the poison used *the strangler* works so quickly and efficiently, why didn't he die up on the dais next to Queen Margery? No one could know that he would leave his throne and accost his uncle's wedding pie...
I think Tyrion was in fact the person intended to be poisoned...as he was the person wrongly blamed for trying to kill Bran and nearly killed for it...as he was accused (by the murderess herself) of killing Jon Arryn and nearly executed for that...as he was also nearly murdered during the battle of the chain by his sister's own guard...It seems to me that someone is rather desperate to kill Tyrion.
Tyrion is quickly becoming a very powerful player, and so he makes others nervous, namely, Littlefinger...who lied about the dagger used in the attempt on Bran's life, and seems to have orchestrated the death at the wedding all the better to spirit away the lady Sansa. Littlefinger clearly has his own twisted agenda.
Tyrion was in the way, both for Littlefinger and for the Tyrells. With Tyrion dead, Sansa (and her claim, to be sure) were again available...and his sister and father would not mourn him for long either. It seems like an obvious win-win situation for everyone (excepting of course, poor dear Tyrion). |
|
|
|
Shaf
Starting Member
8 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2008 : 06:10:14
|
About 99% of the community, as far as I can tell, accepts that Joffrey was the intended target, and that the scheme was a Tyrell conspiracy as aided by Littlefinger. A few points:
1) The notion that the poison was in the pie was dubious at best. We saw the Strangler being used, by Maester Cressen, in the prologue to ACoK, where he dissolved it in wine. The notion that it would "dissolve" in Tyrion's pie is unknown at best. I have no idea what the mechanics of a crystal dissolving in pie would be.
2) The wine changes color over the course of the event. When Joffrey dumps the wine over Tyrion's head (pre-poisoning) it washed down his face "in a red torrent". When Joffrey coughs it up, and when Tyrion pours out the last bit remaining in the cup after the incident, it is a deep purple. It seems likely that this is an effect of the poison. With the poison in the wine, obviously Joffrey was the target.
3) There was ample opportunity for the poison to be slipped into the wine chalice, during the time where the pigeon pie was brought in and cut by Joffrey and Margaery. Margaery obviously would have had to know the plan, as she was drinking from the same chalice (so, she knew not to drink from it after the presentation of the pie). For the poison to be put into the pie presupposes a much more difficult and elaborate conspiracy, as getting the poison in the specific slice of pie that went to Tyrion would not have been easy, particularly if we accept that the poison was in fact the crystal pulled from Sansa's hairnet.
Joffrey is the next person to drink from the chalice after the presentation, and he has just enough time to filch a piece of Tyrion's pie and stuff it down his mouth before dying.
4) If Tyrion was the target, why would Littlefinger go to the trouble of setting up the incident with the jousting dwarves? Littlefinger was obviously a part of it (he knew that someone had adjusted Sansa's hairnet), so it makes no sense to provoke conflict between Tyrion and Joffrey (the obvious intent of the dwarves) only to kill him immediately afterwards.
The motive was probably exactly as Littlefinger described it: the Tyrells wanted Margaery to be queen, but had no desire to see her wed to Joffrey. Littlefinger, knowing that the utterly predictable Cersei would blame Tyrion, set up the jousting dwarves incident with the hopes of pinning it on Tyrion and thus removing a crafty player from the game of thrones, and as a means to get Sansa under his control, all while currying favor with the Tyrells. |
Edited by - Shaf on 25 Jan 2008 06:11:45 |
|
|
|
Vassor Doss
Advanced Member
USA
2224 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2008 : 14:06:20
|
Sorry Carlin, I was confused by your post. I think think Joff was definitely the intended target. And yes, I've thought that it was in the wine, not the pie.
I feel like they should rename the series "A Song of Littlefinger". He's pretty much behind all the drama.
"Colt 45. It works everytime." |
|
|
|
Vassor Doss
Advanced Member
USA
2224 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2008 : 20:39:39
|
I'm reading ACOK again. I just read the part when Dany is in the House of the Undying. I'm wondering about the scene when Dany has the vision of Aerys and Rhaella talking about their newborn son Aegon. Aerys states that Aegon's song is the "song of ice and fire". He then looks directly at Dany, as if he can see her, and states that "the dragon must have three heads".
This leads me to believe that Aegon must be one of the heads of the dragon along with Dany. Why else would Dany have this vision? Jon Snow would be the logical third head, if the Rhaegar/Lyanna bond is true. I know that Aegon was apparently killed by Gregor, but maybe the babies were switched? I think it's possible.
"Colt 45. It works everytime." |
Edited by - Vassor Doss on 07 Feb 2008 20:40:36 |
|
|
|
Sirch
Advanced Member
USA
2668 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2008 : 02:38:59
|
I had thought about this briefly but forgotten about it. Now I'm going to have to read the books again and think about it.
There was so much confusion going on at that moment that it could be possible for something like that to happen.
-----
If you have a problem with a user send me an email in my profile. |
|
|
|
Vassor Doss
Advanced Member
USA
2224 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2008 : 19:51:03
|
I made a mistake. It gets so confusing. It's actually Rhaegar and Elia in Dany's vision. Aegon was/is their son.
With all the ambiguity surrounding Quentyn Martell, I wouldn't be surprised if he is in fact Aegon.
"Colt 45. It works everytime." |
|
|
|
Carlin
Junior Member
Australia
112 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2008 : 00:50:45
|
Wouldn't that be wonderful if Aegon were still truly alive...I feel for the Targeryans, even if they are nepotistic incestual creatures with an inbred tendency to madness. There were as many good ones as bad ones, and of course being a dragon freak I'd love to see a ruler with dragons back in power, and the fact that Dany could be the one is promising to me at least. Of course, there is Rhaegal's taste for human flesh to overcome first...
Quentin really being Aegon would also contribute to the amount of animosity about Elia and her children being murdered...yes it was dreadful in of itself, but if the Lannisters had murdered Quentin thinking it was Aegon...explains why Quentin is secreted away for the whole of his life and the talk by Doran of thrones and kingdoms for Quentin in the letter that Arianne read...
And as for Littlefinger...isn't he the most delicious little devil you've ever encountered in literature? It chills me to think of all the wickedness he's done so far...and how much more he has in store for Westeros. I hope Sansa escapes him as soon as possible, as it's only a matter of time before he debases her and corrupts her for his purposes even further.
|
|
|
|
Vassor Doss
Advanced Member
USA
2224 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2008 : 10:43:26
|
Here's another murder mystery. Balon Greyjoy. I'm reading Swords now and Arya just joined Dondarrion's crew and she spied Tom talking to the dwarf woman. The dwarf states that a man without a face is waiting on a bridge thats swaying and theirs a drowned crow with seaweed on his shoulder. Could this "Faceless Man" be Jaqen H'gar or one of his brethren? Was this the "important business" that forced Jaqen to return to Braavos? Could he have gone to Braavos and then to Pike in the amount of time? Did Euron hire him or another assassin to do the deed? Euron's sudden appearance after Balon's death is very suspicious, but GRRM hasn't really given us the obvious so far so I tend to believe that it was just coincidence. I think it was Stannis' red bitch that sent him.
The first time reading Crows I was not into the story of the Ironmen. I wanted more Tyrion, Dany and Jon. Now, it's probably my favorite story arc and I can't wait until GRRM writes more about it.
"HGH. It works everytime." |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
A Song of Ice and Fire [Major Spoilers Inside]
