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Sirch
Advanced Member
USA
2668 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Feb 2007 : 21:57:59
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Allow me to continue to spew qoutes from the book. =D
"I will," Ned promised her. That was his curse. Robert would swear undying love and forget them before evenfall, but Ned Stark kept his vows. He thought of the promises he made to Lyanna as she lay dying, and the price he'd paid to keep them.
--Thrones page 380
Promising to bury Lyanna at Winterfell could hardly have taken a price on him to keep it.
He remembered Rhaegar's infant son, the red ruin of his skull, and the way the king had turned away, as he had turned away in Darry's audience hall not so long ago. He could still hear Sansa pleading, as Lyanna had pleaded once.
Thrones page 199
This is Sansa pleading about her wolf, how exactly would Ned killing her wolf have any connection with Lyanna pleading to be buried at winterfell? O.o
Ok onto the dream thing, I posted the dream Jon had earlier because I remembered Bran had a similar dream. I just had not read up to the point in the book where he has it and did not have the qoute. Anyway I found a site that has a bunch of excerps from the books that refer to Jon's parentage, which makes it easier on me to qoute stuff I have found, anyway here it is.
"I dreamed about the crow last night. The one with three eyes. He flew into my bedchamber and told me to come with him, so I did. We went down to the crypts. Father was there, and we talked. He was sad."
"And why was that?" Luwin peered through his tube.
"It was something to do about Jon, I think." The dream had been deeply disturbing, more so that any of the other crow dreams.
--AGOT p730
Bran and Jon are having dreams about something in the crypt, what does it have to do with anything and why does it pertain to Jon specifically?
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Thats the inherit beauty of the single file line. They can only kill the person in front! - Sarge |
Edited by - Sirch on 10 Feb 2007 21:59:02 |
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Vassor Doss
Advanced Member
USA
2224 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2007 : 17:09:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Sirch
He remembered Rhaegar's infant son, the red ruin of his skull, and the way the king had turned away, as he had turned away in Darry's audience hall not so long ago. He could still hear Sansa pleading, as Lyanna had pleaded once.
Thrones page 199
This is Sansa pleading about her wolf, how exactly would Ned killing her wolf have any connection with Lyanna pleading to be buried at winterfell? O.o
Why would Martin even mention Lyanna in this quote when Ned's clearly talking about Rhaegar and Elia's son that was killed by the Lannisters at the sack of King's Landing? Either he's trying to hint something or he needs a better editor. 
But yes, Lyanna pleading to be buried at Winterfell does not make sense with Sansa pleading for "Lady". Unless he's just compairing two people who have pleaded to him. Pleading being the operative word.
"Per me si va ne l'etterno dolore" - Dante Alighieri |
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Sirch
Advanced Member
USA
2668 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2007 : 18:16:49
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It doesn't really make sense for Ned to be so haunted by the idea of Lyanna pleading to be buried at Winterfell, especially since she is buried there. It also never states that she was begging to be buried at home. So it would seem that Lyanna has something else to plead about.
GRRM has dropped other hints in his books about some other things. Namely there is a hint during the tourney for Eddard that Tyrion never bets against Jaime, something Tyrion announces later that vindicates Littlefinger as a lier in the matter about the dagger. So im not completely insane looking after these things. =D
I think It is very interesting that the only person who seems to hate Rhaegar is Robert, other people seem to think of him as a fairly good man. Could it be that Robert hates him so beause he thinks he stole Lyanna, a person who he conceives to be his true love, away from him?
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Thats the inherit beauty of the single file line. They can only kill the person in front! - Sarge |
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Vassor Doss
Advanced Member
USA
2224 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2007 : 18:47:04
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You're not insane, you're a freak remember?  
I'm totally starting think that Rheagar and Lyanna are Jon's parents. It makes for a better story. Like I wrote before, and I'm going out on a limb here, but I can certainly see Daenerys and Jon getting together towards the end of the series. Their union would preserve the Targaryen "pure" royal bloodline.
Yes, Robert seems to be the only one who truly hates Rheagar and jealously over Lyanna would certainly be a major reason for it.
"Per me si va ne l'etterno dolore" - Dante Alighieri |
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Carlin
Junior Member
Australia
112 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2007 : 00:40:04
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Well, I myself am a big one for symbolism:
the Starks are the symbol for winter "Ice" and
the Targeryans are the symbols dragons or the "Fire"...
a song of Ice and Fire...
the marriage, or in this case simply the liason, between the two houses...the product of such a liason = Jon Snow. He is the symbol of the union of both...and maybe for the salvation of Westeros against the coming winter from the North, the coming Mother of Dragons and the fire of battle and the doom each represents...
I know it's sick (but incest seems to be recurrent and tolerated in Westeros) but I would like to see Jon and Dany meet and fall in love and save Westeros. I know it's sappy, but hell I'm a romantic woman. I would also like to see Dany's dragons cook Cersei too ...I'm a sick romantic lol
I totally support the Jon not being Ned's son theory, it is too juicy and hinted at to not be true.
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Sirch
Advanced Member
USA
2668 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2007 : 01:10:00
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I get a icky feeling everytime that Cersei makes a pass at Jaime, don't know why but I do. As for if Jon and Dany are half brother/sister would Jon even be open to that in his current story line any time soon?
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Thats the inherit beauty of the single file line. They can only kill the person in front! - Sarge |
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Vassor Doss
Advanced Member
USA
2224 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2007 : 01:15:00
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Wait a sec, isn't Dany Rhaeghar's sister? That would make her the aunt to any of his offspring.
"Per me si va ne l'etterno dolore" - Dante Alighieri |
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Carlin
Junior Member
Australia
112 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2007 : 01:32:00
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Yeah, it's gross the whole Jaime/Cersei thing...it just smacks of hillbillies doesn't it? lol no seriously, yes Dany is Jon's Aunty, but it's still incest by definition...but weren't the Targeryans into that? Keeping the bloodlines strong and all that? Mind you, Dany is now barren, is she not?
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Sirch
Advanced Member
USA
2668 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2007 : 02:29:37
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Err yea its his aunt, I was muddling the Cersei thing into my thinking. Jon wasn't raised with the thinking that he has to wed a blood relative though, don't you think it would come off as more then a little strange to him? Also the aunt nephew thing doesnt make it anymore acceptable. :P
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Thats the inherit beauty of the single file line. They can only kill the person in front! - Sarge |
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Carlin
Junior Member
Australia
112 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2007 : 02:37:25
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Okay, Sirch, but say, for those who read the books who are less astute or less willing to try to figure out the intrigue - what if somehow Dany and Jon end up meeting somehow and fall in love - I mean, it's a big secret, right, Jon maybe being related, he doesn't know it, no way she's going to know it, until it's too late...who's left alive that knows? hmmmmm....I mean, who's to say, hang on this isn't right! ? I love the possible symbolism tho, Jon being a Tanis like character, with the blood of two opposing powers, he could actually unite the realm, as the North is going to be overrun but tamed by probably Jon or Bran when he figgers out who and what he's going to be, and the south is going to be invaded and taken over by Dany and her minions (both slaying the little players along the way - I hope they're reserving a special hell for Littlefinger)..so they could either meet and fall in love, or meet and draw a truce or meet and kill one another...only to find out later somehow they are rellies...it boggles the mind but still possible.
Never said it was right about the whole family love thing, but it sure is getting a workout in those books, ain't it? lol |
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Sirch
Advanced Member
USA
2668 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2007 : 02:48:29
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The way I look at it, there is a lot of stuff that we simply don't know or cannot account for. There are clearly things going on so It is hard to guess at upcoming plot events, I do think It is possible to pick out things that have happened in the past of the world though.
How do the others factor in? Will we see the children of the forest? Will Dany make it to over the Westeros to start her war, we have seen unexpected things happen before. What is Bran's role in this, I think it is clear he is yet to play an important part but what is it? My list of questions go on and my imagination takes them all over the place so i'm hard pressed to try and guess at the future and plot of the books! Thats what I like about them.
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Thats the inherit beauty of the single file line. They can only kill the person in front! - Sarge |
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Vassor Doss
Advanced Member
USA
2224 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2007 : 03:14:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Sirch
Err yea its his aunt, I was muddling the Cersei thing into my thinking. Jon wasn't raised with the thinking that he has to wed a blood relative though, don't you think it would come off as more then a little strange to him? Also the aunt nephew thing doesnt make it anymore acceptable. :P
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Thats the inherit beauty of the single file line. They can only kill the person in front! - Sarge
It's not unheard of for extended family members to marry. It's certainly more acceptable than brother and sister, especially when the aunt is related only by marriage, or in this case, by mistress.
Carlin brought up a good point about the title of the book and it's meaning. Are there any theories about that? Jon = Ice, Dany = Fire, and the union of the two to unite the realms?
"Per me si va ne l'etterno dolore" - Dante Alighieri |
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Sirch
Advanced Member
USA
2668 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2007 : 03:22:22
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Well there is the vision Dany has in Clash of Kings. I havent gotten to that part yet but It has something to with Rhaeger saying something about a song of fire and ice, something about having two children and he must have one more because the dragon needs three heads. When I get up to that point ill post a better quote of it.
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Thats the inherit beauty of the single file line. They can only kill the person in front! - Sarge |
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graren
Junior Member
USA
161 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2007 : 05:53:03
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in referance to the dream you posted:
I don't think that dream has as much to do with his questionable parenting, as much as it does his fate. I get the feeling from that of the stong kings of the past calling him to be one of them, to bring life to the aging ways of the north. Jon is among the last of men who both follows the old ways and still has the blood of the 1st men running strong in his veins. as we've seen time and again, Jon has a natural instinct for the ways of the north. I've always seen him as the trueblood of the north personaly
A Song of Ice and Fire: look at what we have coming to westeros from the free cities, a return of dragons, and the fire lord. then look to the north, there is a tension, legends are starting to live again. the others are becoming more frequint and an attack on the wall or beyond seems forth coming. fire, just like the south, has an exotic flair to it, it is very beautiful and full of temptation. it is a desire that can destroy you. ice, just as the north, is hard and slow to yield to change. cold and impassionate, ice fills its purpose with out asking for permision, and without remorse.
Fire from the south, Ice from the north. Dany feeds the flame that will head north. Jon is apart of the ice that will head south. When the flame melts the ice, the flame will be extinguished and the landscape will be forever changed.
I'm not a scientist, statistics have no meaning to me.
I'm an artist, expressions of feeling are how I see the world. |
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Sirch
Advanced Member
USA
2668 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2007 : 06:27:45
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Oh my qoute on the dream had to do with Vassor asking for more conspiracy theories, if I worded it in a way that made it seem otherwise it's a by product of me being busy and rushed. The dream is the closest thing I have to another theory but I don't feel like there enough information on it to make any guesses.
I do feel there is something to do with trinity in the book, three dragons and Dany's vision with Rhaegar saying that the dragon needs to have three heads. I don't know what that has to do with anything, but it might be worth investigating.
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Thats the inherit beauty of the single file line. They can only kill the person in front! - Sarge |
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A Song of Ice and Fire [Major Spoilers Inside]
